Should you sue a customer who won’t pay?
In this episode of Overdue Advice, host Bryn Griffiths sits down with veteran civil litigator Howie Sniderman following the National Credit Conference in Jasper. Together they explore one of the biggest questions facing credit professionals: when legal action is the right next step, and why winning in court is only part of the equation.
Howie explains why businesses should revisit their due diligence before filing a claim, how companies and ownership structures can change over time, and why the real objective is collecting the debt rather than simply obtaining a judgment. The conversation also examines the rapid adoption of AI in the legal profession, including its opportunities, limitations, and the continuing importance of human expertise.
Whether you’re managing commercial accounts receivable or evaluating a difficult collection decision, this episode offers free practical advice from one of Canada’s most experienced civil litigators.
Disclaimer: always seek legal advice rom a legal professional familiar with your case. The information provided here is general and does not apply to every situation.
Episode Highlights:
00:00 Understanding Credit and Collection Challenges
03:09 The Impact of AI on Legal Practices
06:00 The Role of Technology in Customer Interaction
08:50 Reflections on a 45-Year Legal Career
12:11 Navigating Economic Challenges and Optimism
14:57 Embracing Change in a Technological Era
Episode Transcript
Bryn Griffiths:
This is Overdue Advice, the podcast about how and why debt collection works for your business, brought to you by MetCredit.
My name is Bryn Griffiths.
The world of credit and credit collection is always changing, mostly because the world is always on the move too. Today I sit down with an old friend of the show, Howie Sniderman. He’s a civil litigator with 45 years under his belt, and we caught up to him fresh off speaking at the National Credit Conference in Jasper, Alberta. This time around, we got into something every credit professional deals with at some point. Someone loans someone money they don’t pay.
Question is, do you sue?
Turns out the real question isn’t whether or not you’ll win, it’s whether you’ll actually collect. We also got into AI and how it’s already reshaping his world as a lawyer. Here’s my conversation with Howie.
Howie, we talk every year. Well, we talk some other times too, but we only talk like this once a year. How you doing?
Howie Sniderman:
I’m doing great, and it’s so much fun to be It’s great to be back with you, Bryn. Thanks so much for asking.
Bryn Griffiths:
So you’re very tied in with all the credit people across Canada. You’ve attended events like this frequently. You’re speaking in Jasper here at the National Credit Conference, which is presented by obviously MetCredit and also the Credit Institute of Canada. What was your main topic when you were talking with everybody in this last one?
Howie Sniderman:
This time I was asked to discuss with credit professionals from their point of view, When I loan somebody money or I extend credit to them to buy whatever and they don’t pay me, do I have to sue them? You know, sometimes it gets to the point where, of course, you have to sue them.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right.
Howie Sniderman:
But do I have to sue them? And if I sue them, will I win? And that, that’s a big question, right? And from, from their points of view, because they’re professionals, they actually turned the question around a little bit. And so the presentation that I prepared turned around a little bit as well. It’s not just will I win, but will I collect? And that’s so important, right?
Bryn Griffiths:
Yeah, that’s a very important part. So what’s the answer to that?
Bryn Griffiths:
Is there one?
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah, there is. And it’s, from my point of view, as I tried to get across, and I think I did, it all starts at the beginning when they’re doing their due diligence in order to decide whether or not to grant credit. They’re looking at that moment in time. What is this customer all about? Are they creditworthy? By the time they get to me, something’s gone sour. They haven’t been repaid or paid. And we need to take another look at why, but more importantly, what is that customer all about? Who are they? And how have they changed today since the time they first granted credit? And we’re always finding ways in which they’ve changed. And I’ll just give you a quick example.
Bryn Griffiths:
Sure.
Howie Sniderman:
When they grant credit to Company A 10 years ago, and they’ve been a wonderful loyal customer all those 10 years, but all of a sudden, for some reason, the payments stop coming, they dry up. Then they take another close look at Company A and they find out that it’s no longer Company A, it’s Company B, or any other number of changes that have occurred from the moment in time that they first granted credit. till today. Those are all things which can affect, of course, their ability to collect. And so what I tried to get across and impress upon them is that the same kind of due diligence they did at the start, we’re going to do now. Because the last thing I want them doing is spending a hell of a lot of money on a lawyer, frankly, to get a piece of paper that says, yeah, you were right, they do owe you money. Here’s a wonderful piece of paper, you can hang it on the wall. But they want their money.
And yeah, we gotta look at whether or not we’re actually gonna collect.
Bryn Griffiths:
Are there serial offenders? I gotta think there are. There’s gotta be some people who just aren’t gonna pay. They’ll take it to a certain point. Or am I watching too many TV shows, Howie?
Howie Sniderman:
Yes and no. I think it’s fair to say there are serial offenders and, and, you know, they run through the credit industry or any other industry for that matter, leaving a wake of debt behind them. And once that, you know, once burnt, twice shy, and yet the same entity isn’t the way they present themselves the second time around. They’ve got a different trade name, they’ve got a different partner, they’ve got a different modus operandi, whatever it might be. It’s the due diligence though phase at the beginning that’s going to suss it out, I hope, and prevent a once burnt, you know, twice burnt scenario. It’ll be a once burnt, twice shy. Right.
Bryn Griffiths:
Have things changed a lot in the last year?
Howie Sniderman:
Well…
Bryn Griffiths:
I say that because some people say, no, no, no, we saw this coming, or, you know, and then there’s other people who are, are you kidding? It’s just, it’s, there’s a dramatic change in the last 365.
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah. In my industry, I’m, you know, I’m a civil litigator. So in the law industry, we see an increasing use of AI, and that’s no news to you because there’s an increasing use of AI in every industry.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right.
Howie Sniderman:
The question is, how is it being used now? How is it likely to be used in the future? What new opportunities are going to arise as a result of its use, and what challenges are going to arise as well? So everybody wants to have a crystal ball and know the future, No one does. And, and, and so the best you can do is the best you can do. The worst you can do though, for sure, is pretend it doesn’t exist. That would be the worst.
Bryn Griffiths:
Yeah. The other thing too, can people be steered in the wrong direction with AI?
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah. In my industry, again, we have, and this is not just a legal industry issue with AI, there are things called hallucinations. You may have heard of this. This is where the AI gives you backup to the answer it’s provided, but the backup it made up, it doesn’t exist. And in our industry, the examples are cases, court decisions, which don’t exist. That’s as extreme as you can get, obviously. And so what does it mean? It means at my end and at your end, no matter what industry, you got to do your due diligence. and double-check to at least some degree the information that’s provided to us by AI.
Bryn Griffiths:
And then security of information too has got to be a huge thing.
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah, the confidentiality aspect of things is everything from a law firm’s point of view. And so we use proprietary software when we’re doing our research so that we can input the data and information relative to any specific case, including confidential client information. With that though, we’re told and we’re guaranteed that the data isn’t going anywhere other than to us. In other words, it is proprietary. You still in the pit of your stomach have a concern, but so far we’ve been using for about a year this particular software brand and we haven’t found any kind of breach, so we’re pleased.
Bryn Griffiths:
My doctor’s office on his wall says, my degree, my medical degree from the University of Alberta is more important than your Google degree. And I think that that could apply to pretty much anything, just not the medical industry. It could be everything. You just have to be aware of everything, right?
Howie Sniderman:
Well, you do. But I think, as I said before, I don’t want people to bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn’t exist. And that would be the worst thing because you’re losing out on opportunities, frankly. It’s the wise, smart use of it. So yeah, I’m not saying anything that you couldn’t read in any newspaper article. We all agree AI is here. AI is going to get more and more pervasive in our day-to-day lives, work lives, and outside work lives. And we’re all going to have to get used to it and figure out the smartest way to use it.
Bryn Griffiths:
From the feedback you got at the conference with what you were talking about, any questions come out of the blue and you thought to yourself, well, I never really saw that one coming? Are you always well-prepped because of your legal background?
Howie Sniderman:
That would be sweet if that was the case, but no, I did have a surprise this morning at breakfast. I asked, as I have been doing the last few days, are you using AI in your particular business and industry? And if so, how? And one fellow told me they use a front office clerk or a front counter clerk that’s a robot.
Bryn Griffiths:
Really?
Howie Sniderman:
And, you know, the robot was made in China, About a year ago, and they’ve been testing it for these number of months. A customer comes in and interacts with and orders whatever it is they want to order from the robot, who remembers what they’ve ordered, and the next time they come back asks, how did it work out, etc.? It’s fascinating. He showed me a photo of the robot and I’m loving it. And, and He said, the way we justify it to customers — we also have human clerks, front office clerks, counter clerks too. But the way we justify it is, if you went to McDonald’s, would you go and order from the human being behind the counter or do you go to the kiosk and punch in your order?
Bryn Griffiths:
Yeah.
Howie Sniderman:
And if you ask anybody, a lot of people are going to tell you, I go to the kiosk because it’s quicker, it’s more efficient, and I can customize it knowing it’s customized the way I want. Just so much ketchup and not pickles, right?
Bryn Griffiths:
So that’s a funny story because I was in Sweden about 2 years ago and the hotel had a robotic vacuum cleaner that did the entire, every floor, floor by floor by floor by floor with eyes and you could actually talk to it. And also they had a computer-driven robot at the concierge counter. So if you say, okay, I don’t know what to see today in Stockholm, what should I do? Well, and what was your room number? It would take your room number and it would say, well, Mr.
Bryn Griffiths:
I think maybe you want to go to the ABBA Museum today. Or do you like music?
Because the ABBA Museum, it’s amazing. It really is amazing, isn’t it?
Howie Sniderman:
The bottom line is we’re saying the same thing here, Bryn. We’re saying that it’s part of our lives now. Yeah, it’s going to become more and more part of our lives, and we should not be resisting. I recognize that’s a commercial commercial for a Terminator movie. Resistance is futile, right?
Bryn Griffiths:
Yeah.
Howie Sniderman:
Or maybe that was something else. I think that was Star Trek actually with the Borg.
Bryn Griffiths:
One of those movies.
Howie Sniderman:
But in any event, the bottom line is resistance, resistance is futile. It’s not possible for us to move forward in this world without recognizing how it’s already part of and going to more and more be part of our lives. And we not just got to get used to it, but we got to master it and take Full advantage of all the opportunities.
Bryn Griffiths:
Gotta ask you about your career. How many years for you now?
Howie Sniderman:
This coming Monday, June 15th, will be exactly 45 years since I started.
Bryn Griffiths:
Wow.
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah, 45 years.
Bryn Griffiths:
Does it feel like 45 years?
Howie Sniderman:
Sometimes. Some days.
Bryn Griffiths:
What got you going? I’ve asked everybody this that I’ve talked to at this particular conference. What got you started in this direction? Is this something you always wanted to do? Let’s say grade 9, you thought, that’s what I want to do. And have you even come close to what you thought in grade 9 you’d be doing now? Obviously.
Howie Sniderman:
Yeah, grade 9 would be a little early. I don’t think I had thoughts of anything then, but I thought I wanted to be a journalist. And my parents thought maybe I wanted to be something different. So I started university in my undergrad couple of years or so, and I looked around and I saw a lot of my friends going to law school. So I’m gonna be honest with you. I said, why not? And I knew I enjoyed writing, and I knew that involved writing. The problem for me turned out to be I didn’t have lawyers in my family. I didn’t really know lawyers.
Howie Sniderman:
So all I knew was what I saw on TV and in the movies. And all I saw was a bunch of lawyers defending criminals or prosecuting criminals. That’s what lawyers do. The real problem for me, Bryn, was when I got outta law school, I still thought that’s what lawyers did. And so, for the first few years, I did a lot of criminal defense work, but eventually I morphed into the civil litigation side of things. And frankly, I’m very glad for it. It means that I’m only worried about money, and it’s other people’s money. It’s not my money, so I can really concentrate on doing a job for them.
Bryn Griffiths:
I concur.
Bryn Griffiths:
I learned that too. I think it was Matlock. I can’t remember, but whatever. Working with the wonderful people, obviously in the credit world, I’ve met a lot of wonderful people here over the last 5 years and had a chance to interview a lot of great people, but they just seem to wanna learn. They soak up so much of the information that I don’t know how they do it.
Howie Sniderman:
I’m gonna tell you, I started my sessions here at this conference And I told the folks how much in awe I am of them because I recognize the pressure that they’re under every single day not to make a mistake as part of the due diligence, to make sure that every I is indeed dotted and T is indeed crossed. And then the risk that they take that their decisions are correct, they’re big risks. So I know that they’re highly trained, they’re great professionals, and they take their jobs really seriously, which makes it great to interact with them because we can talk at a pretty high functioning level, frankly. And that’s why I’ve enjoyed working with them all these years.
Bryn Griffiths:
Have you noticed a change since the pandemic? Because 2020 was a year I don’t think any of us will ever forget. I’m amazed at how a lot of companies have come through things and have actually surged because they had to reinvent themselves. What about you? Has much changed over the last 6 years in how you handle things?
Howie Sniderman:
For me personally, I’m a civil litigator. That means when there’s a problem, I’m very, very busy. It also means though that when it’s, let me put it a different way. When people are finding that the economy is rough, they don’t have a choice. I gotta sue that so-and-so.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right.
Howie Sniderman:
And when the economy’s going great guns, they say, hmm, I’m gonna sue that so-and-so. So for me, it’s always busy is what I’m saying. Having said that, for the economy as a whole, I’ve seen some amazing surges and so have you. And also I’ve seen some really tough times for certain people. It’s not all roses for everybody, not by a long shot. There are lots of pockets of the economy that that are struggling, but others are going great guns and will continue to. And I think that it’s this move and ever-increasing phase towards technology and digitization of things that is going to define the future, frankly. But those who are caught in the middle of it, who are finding difficulty getting a job either out of school or otherwise, Those kind of struggles are still gonna continue too.
Howie Sniderman:
And I’m hopeful that we’ll always have a good safety net for everyone.
Bryn Griffiths:
I don’t know if Canada has changed in terms of how we view things, but I seem to feel that we default more now to the negative than we have in a long time. So when people start talking about the economy, immediately they go to the negative. However, haven’t we had to deal with negatives before? And we always seem to find a way to survive and come through the other side of it. Maybe a little scratched up, but right now we’re going through a tough economic time. It’s not being helpful with the way things are being run south of the border. I don’t wanna go down that rabbit hole, but you know, there’s a lot of other reasons why things are getting piled on. But do you still see that negativity that I just, I just see way more of it, but I’m always optimistic because we’ve done it before. We’ll do it again.
Howie Sniderman:
We’re going to go back now for a moment to that AI conversation we had. I think that people are seeing and being scared about things they don’t understand. That’s always been the case with human beings and it always will be. So our job, I think, as a society is to teach everybody as best they can about the coming changes, about the way in which the world that they live in is going to change and is changing as a way to guide them towards a better place overall. Until then though, I see there’s going to be upheaval. We’re seeing it now in this space. People are scared in some instances because they don’t understand and therefore the change they’re resistant to. And so, and the big change, the biggest change is going to come to some very highly skilled professionals.
Howie Sniderman:
You know, if you can dig a ditch, Yeah, I understand there are machines that do that too. But if you can, you know, if you’re a plumber, et cetera, et cetera, there’s construction industry trades like those kind of industries. I think not only are there still good days ahead, I think there are great days ahead for them.
Bryn Griffiths:
There’s the bell. I gotta tell you this one thing though, and that is the fact that I’m sorry to hear you’re so busy. I know you’re gonna, I know you’ll take that the right way. So.
Howie Sniderman:
Thank you, Bryn. I’ll try and be less busy, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen.
Bryn Griffiths:
I know, Howie, it’s always great chatting with you. Thank you very much. I, I appreciate it. And, uh, I could just sit back and talk to you all day because— and we’ve done it a couple of times over a lunch. So, uh, thanks very much for joining us on the podcast today.
Howie Sniderman:
Thank you. Always a pleasure, Bryn. Thank you.
Bryn Griffiths:
Hey, that’s it for today’s episode of Overdue Advice. We’re easy to find online. MetCredit is on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and X @MetCredit. And you can also check out Brian Summerfelt’s blog. It’s easy to find too. It’s blog.metcredit.com. The website also includes numerous helpful tools and calculators to assess your business debt risk. And we’d also love to hear from you. So subscribe, like, or leave us a review on this or any of our podcasts and make sure you share that podcast with your friends and business associates.
You could drop us a line at overdueadvice@metcredit.com.
Overdue Advice, the podcast about cash flow strategies to grow your business. I’m Bryn Griffiths.